This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. Awesome music, right? During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. According to Krakauer, the letter said something to the effect of, Mark wont talk to you, but I will, and you definitely want to talk to me. That response introduced Krakauer to the Laffertys and gave him the story he needed to animate what he considered his analysis of radical faith. Cookie Notice Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. That was fascinating, thank you. Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). However, they still mention other things in their presentations (if you can stand to listen to them; I dont particularly like Jake Hiltons rhetoric, but Wayne May is pretty interesting to listen to)that are pretty fascinating and almost convincing. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. And great questions John. Since you worked for Steven Christensen, could you shed any light on the main reason why Steven purchased documents from Hoffman was it just to donate documents to the church? Don't miss. And much was going on. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. Brent is generally a giant in Mormon Studies, and is a great guy. [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. Do you believe that your martial arts and mental training has contributed to your belief system and the independence from the crowd? Brent Metcalf (born July 14, 1986) is an American freestyle wrestler who formerly competed in the international circuit for the United States of America. It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. One question though, has Hoffman done any interviews since being in prison? From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. Research into the origins or Christianity strongly suggest that there are no babies only bathwater. Joseph Smiths myth-making leveraged Christian myth-making at the dawn of higher criticism. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. Growing up I only had positive interactions with his beautiful wife and kids. Life changing! God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. Let me clarify. Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. Jn Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. I need help with casting ZEE5 on my TV. What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. In the past, we often got snippets of information in The Church News, Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. After admiring the glory of the Lamb for some time, I began to think of the situation my body was in, and rose up to return home. Although he refused to read her book, a respected Mormon scholar named J. Reuben Clark asked the Deseret News to publish his long review of No Man Knows My History. The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! Thanks for the great podcast. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. Visit with the Skabelund family, 9:30-10:30 am,. I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? Growing up in the Eleventh Ward, you seemed very different than the Terry, Larry and Scott group. If Krakauer can interview Dan Lafferty, it might be possible. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. I was a writer for 7th East Press. The weaker the church gets the better it gets and when it is completely impotent and ceases to exist it will be the best it can ever be. Honestly, incredible work. He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. I know about the September 6 and there are others. The October 1985 bombings that killed two individuals and severely injured another was initially assumed to be related to a financial business. Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. I have one teensy-tiny criticism about Johns sensitivity when someone questioned why Brent did not pursue an advanced degree. What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Its a band called The Lower Lights. I have some insights into that. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. Ive heard there might. I happen to believe so. Oh, that would be great! I clearly remember the frustration in her voice. We were both greenies at the same time. at firesides, etc about some new discovery somewhere that was about to put to rest the concerns about the BOMs historicity. Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . The triplet Egyptian Alphabet manuscripts and the bound Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language also elaborate the Katumin narrative. @BHMetcalf. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? Why didnt the Lord reveal to the the prophet that Hofmann was going to kill? All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. The lengthy, five-part series covers Metcalfes childhood in Mormonism, his mission, his time []. Be the first to contribute! This was an excellent broadcast! Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. But those were interesting times! When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. We Elders thought this was powerful truth, to compliment the claims of the Book of Mormon, to convince the Jew and Gentile. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. Im sure there is a very good possibility that COB personnel would have been more suspect of Jerald, and any information he offered, than Hofmann. Hi, was wondering if Brent is still available to respond to my train of thought above? Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. Ive followed Mormon stories for several years now and listed to most of the episodes and this interview with Brent Metcalfe is in my top 5 MS podcasts. I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. A man with boldness of speech, and is often cited by members as one of the favourite apostles to hear from. brent metcalfe excommunicatedperpetual futures binance. Fixed: Release in which this issue/RFE has been fixed.The release containing this fix may be available for download as an Early Access Release or a General Availability Release. Why do you think it is that the church is so fearful of discoveries such as the letters by Mark H ? :( Will re-record hopefully soon! And Im speaking as a believer- in the very traditional sense- in the Christian interpretation of the world. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. dave davies wife. Metcalfe (ed. Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. Near the end of a presentation you gave for the ExMormon Foundation, you said something to the effect of: People ask me how Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, how he pulled it off, how it all came about. Youre one of the few secular critics of the church that can offer a really long perspective on challenges to Mormonisms truth claims. The Version table provides details related to the release that this issue/RFE will be addressed. What academic publications does Mr. Metcalfe have to his name that qualifies him to be called one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham? [9] Metcalfe and the police were afraid Metcalfe might be a future target he went into hiding. He said that a response finally came not from Hofmann but from one of the Lafferty brothers who was apparently Hofmanns cell mate or on the same block or something like that. This was interesting all around. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? When I was on my mission in the early 70s, we were encouraged to show a film called Ancient America Speaks. Should have added one more minor thing. This is what led me here! The insight into the many corners of Mormonism important to us here was delicious. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. Watch the full match. Some people who study and read deeply can be more expert than others with advanced degrees. You seem to be back on your game of simply inviting your guests to tell their stories. Its great to find all this background information. Part two was chilling as details we have never heard about Mark Hoffman, Steve Christiansen come out. accounting for llc member buyout; black barber shops chicago; otto ohlendorf descendants; 97 4runner brake bleeding; Freundschaft aufhoren: zu welchem Zeitpunkt sera Semantik Starke & genau so wie parece fair ist und bleibt 7 czerwca 2022. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) Thanks! 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (2014 Podcast Episode) Plot Showing all 0 items Jump to: Summaries It looks like we don't have any Plot Summaries for this title yet. The portion you quoted is an example of what I dub a conversion epiphany (as I mentioned in the podcast). Thank you for this very interesting presentation. The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Are you generally satisfied with the way the Mark Hofmann affair has been portrayed in the media and in the various books? Hi Brent, Thank you for your insights and open heart. How have things changed over the decades? Thanks! [8] Personal life [ edit] Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. Little trace of Morison survives for much of the early 1540s, but it is clear that he built up his landed base and attached himself to . Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. If Catholicism were ultimately true, for example, then in the final accounting its dogmatic claims would not be hamstringing- they would serve as a clarifying lens through which to analyze historical questions, a lens which helps the believing scholar from wasting his time investigating a false path. I am so grateful I stumbled across them along with D. Michael Quinns books wow now 20 years ago. He has already saved her from choking on several occasions. Very informative. I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. A scene from John Dehlin's upcoming disciplinary council, probably. What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? Thank you. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. 2) It seems to me that most of the critiques in the 21st century arent recent developments, rather they already existed for sometimes decades (credit to Brodie and the Tanners for that). Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. On Wiwikipedia, it mentions that in a hit piece done by Dan Peterson, that he encodeds the message, Metcalfe is a butthead. What were your qurarrels like with FARMS? My mind was calm and at peace with God through the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. Brent Metcalf's last collegiate wrestling match was a highly anticipated one. [2][3], At first Metcalfe was placed on 30 days probation by the LDS Security department and ordered to "sever yourself from involvement with people, groups, or publications that teach doctrines, privately or publicly, which are contrary to those of the Prophet." This is one of the best MS interviews I have heard so far. But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. As soon as we can! The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. It seems there is some serious self deception that is required to work around these problems that are creating riffs in families, as well as individual conflicts of spiritual dissonance for good members and leaders of the church. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? No one believed that any one person could do all of those forgeries and build those bombs, and kill those people . Excellent question. brent metcalfe excommunicated. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. Or even presenting the center view? Iowa's Brent Metcalf wrestles with Iowa State's Mitch Mueller during their 149 pound match Friday, March 19, 2010 in the quarterfinal round of the 2010 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling Championships at . Quote: More recent studies conducted by Professor of Anthropology Richard B. Stamps, of the Michigan Historical Museum, indicate that the artifacts were made with contemporary tools. What would you say are the most significant developments in the critiques of the church in the past 20 years that didnt exist beforehand? Is it paramount to understand all of these religious histories and come to terms with them or, Brant for people like you and me, would it be better to turn our talents toward uncovering and deciphering Gobekli Tepe, a stone temple complex built 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age in Turkey, built by the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition? Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. Thank you so much for being so open and honest that particular issue. Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. Im sure this applies to other beliefs as well. Its done. Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. She is professor emeritus of history at Read more January 15, 2015. What scenario for the books origins have you constructed over your many years of study? October 20, 2021. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. After all, he was the one who had introduced him to Steve Christensen, the first of Marks victims. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: Please post your questions for Brent here. Vol. It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. Do you attend church anyplace else? brent metcalfe excommunicated. Thank you for this interview. It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. There are so many parallels between the happenings in my LDS life and Brents, (although nothing to such depth and notoriety) I was drawn to find more information about his life, while he was in the church and out. "BoMor" is a contraction preferred by Brent Metcalfe, who edited the book in which this paper appeared, and who likewise does not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon -- Metcalfe was exxed I think sometime after the infamous September Six. I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. Brent, thank you so much for doing this interview!