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The problem on dirt is the high rear roll center. The last time I drove that car I put a short third link (11 inches long) and a long panhard bar after that any adjustment I did to the car it did what it was supposed to do. Would it be too much of an advantage to let these guys run a 3-link rear with solid links and panhard bar? Anderson , IN. Understanding the relationship between the rear roll center on these cars and the setup will help us find a more balanced setup. How to Raise Cross Weight in iRacing Setup. . Get the best deals on Asphalt Oval Racing Parts when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. As for stock arms they worked just fine ,and didn't cost anything. Divide that in half for the center of the wheel. I drive both a metric (my truck) and a leaf spring car (ss). For warmer track temperatures, you are going to need to tighten the car. It just won't work. X-Y-G METRIC STREET STOCK / SPORTSMAN HEADQUARTERs 704-784-5353. Another gardener is pla, Get Free Seeds & Taste the Delicious Flavor of Estler's Mortgage Lifter with Edweather's Generous Offer, Estler's Mortgage Lifter is an heirloom tomato variety developed by William Estler in the mid-1920s. Wheels. These desires are directly influenced by the spring stiffness, location, and spring split, the sprung weight the system has to support, along with the moment center locations and other settings. Often overlooked in the mainstream, dirt track racing is one of the most exciting forms of tire-scorching car racing action. Polyethylene Film / PE Sheet I feel the metrics should definitely be allowed panhard bars and rear weight jacks. So, again this year as in past years, we will present what is admittedly the formula for success related more for the conventional and what we call soft conventional setups mainly because these are the ones that produce more consistency and do win races. I drove the #01 ss for two years and tried everything I could think of within the rules and it was a hard job to keep the car in control because of the binding of the rear suspension. We always start with the front end geometry on any race car. The settings, including the moment center location, really do dictate how all of the other parts and pieces of setup will work. The upper IC is to the rear of the rearend and the IC for the lower links is well in front of the rearend. the metric cars at THR are at a big disadvantage in terms of track width, ride height, and rear suspension but if they were to be able to use a third link and panhard bar they can be very competitive even without weight jacks. Over the years, most of the things that I have learned about racing, I've learned the hard way. If the LR tire is too cool, then the RR spring is too stiff. BBC Truck Header 2 1/4in X 4in Fender Well Schoenfeld 2348 . That extra effort is what separates the front runners from the rest of the field. And your choice of aluminum or steel fenders doors and quarters. I ran a street stock/sportsman from 1995 to 2000 with a metric frame. Vintage/Classic/Historical Engine Tech, 3V Performance Engine & Valve train Development, Race Cars & Parts - For Sale or Wanted, Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, Re: Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/r ss.326355/. Nick might be a better theory guy but I don't think that just adding a panhard bar will get you there. 70030. Note the new cross weight and the ride heights. I had a very experienced racer come out and help us one time and he said the problem he saw with the car is the rear end looked as if it was shifting to the left by a couple inches. This guide covers much of the basics for the less experienced sim racer as well as a troubleshooting section that should help reduce your lap times. We are only talking about a difference of 0.040- to 0.060-inch, but that is enough to help stabilize our car on exit and provide added bite. If you want to know how to adjust iRacing Sprint Car cross weight, go here. When the LF is too cold, the RR spring is too soft. The Metric four-link suspension design is a bit different than most other rear suspensions. A 1 1/2-inch top view misalignment with a 44-inch driveshaft results in nearly 2 degrees of angle at both the tranny and the pinion shafts. LIT-A950700016 80275NDP Ford Mustang Cobra HE. in Exotic Race Cars on a Real RaceTrack, Copyright 2000-2023 I would like know what the ic would be on a g body with a 9 inch in the rear with stock suspension. 358101 FAB . It costs just as much money, if not more, to run poorly, so you might as well learn to run well. I would rather race 100% legal with a rule book that is written 100% clear and specific, that is enforced as it is written. That was it. And I do agree weight jacks don't cost much, sure is alot easier to do the same thing we were doing with hidden couplers and shims . My old car had a stock frame front to back with just the suspension pick-up points changed, it took a lot of trial and error over three years to get a good baseline for most tracks. This develops more crossweight as the car squats on acceleration. We have been softening those setups over the years, but never intended to go to coil bind or bump rubbers. I want to try a reverse spring set up on a hobby stock car that am helping a friends with its a 3400 lbs metric car all stock. Our second design in our dirt chassis line this IMCA legal metric clip car designed in 2006 was already proving itself to be a successful chassis. Prices listed are with a frame swap option. Make small adjustments, about one half of one percent. Russet mites are a type of pest that can cause damage to leaves, stems, and petioles. Please Login or Register 03/04/23 at 12:37am, what front springs to start with and whats a good baseline for wieghts the minum is 3100 what do i need for leftside,rear,and cross. This is what I did to my Metric that won the 2012 UMP National Championship. AFCO C1 METRIC PADS. I spoke with Dave24 after last weekend, he dropped the fronts down to 700 LF and 800 RF and got the cross down to 45.8%, pulled the bolt out and floated the RR spring. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience circle track racing a mopar unibody. Any angle up hill to the right rear will cause upward force on both tires and unload both tires. I never got to the experimenting stage on asphalt. Looking forward to the tips for Dirt Oval racing! Each setup has a life cycle or a time frame in which it will work before we run into a stopping point with it. Thank you for pointing out the obvious to me . Antisquat results from the third link trying to straighten out, or become more horizontal as the car accelerates and the rear end desires to rotate. document.write("" + contact + "" + "") Mod Four Tech. The car would have a complete roll cage with stock type suspension. If we can raise the upper front link mounts, we can lower the rear RC by lowering the upper IC. men need when considering these types of changes. The 1st thing we will need to do is look at the car, where are we with your current setup and how far can we go with that setup. You must try to determine if your setup is balanced and then if not, make the necessary changes to bring it into a balanced state. That's why I asked about weight jacks in the original post. The driveshaft alignment is critical from the standpoint of mechanical efficiency. pretty much none of that ++*% matters at stateline, it is mostly driver and survival is the name of the game, get all your angles and roll centers figured out and you will be faster when you make it to the front i have seen dozens of cars that dominate in the stock class at stateline but get squashed at eriez and rw7 however once you get a car fast at either of those tracks then you will be fast everywhere you go. RacelineCentral is not responsible for the accuracy of this document, If you are an owner, sponsor, or mentioned here, Please feel free to contact us below for updating. Bite Off The Corners Aero Package . Setup Tips for Metric on asphalt racecheep. The moment arm is 5.5 inches for the Late Model and is much easier to set up. These pads are use on dirt for medium and heavy braking, and asphalt for sportsman and Hobby Stock cars. When this book was originally published in 2001 it was specifically for GM Metric chassis (78 or newer Malibu, Monte Carlo, Regal and Cutlass cars) racing on asphalt. Circle Track Setup: The Case for Caster. You refering to dirt track racing correct? If you find that the left rear is the coolest tire on the car, then you have a setup balance problem where the rear is too stiff. Use the "new" 7 inch arm on the RH and the 8.5 on the LH. We took all the cross out like Lee and trailed the RR and did not use much stagger. Negative aspects might include excessive bumpsteer (more than 0.030 bump in or out in for each inch of travel is considered negative by most designers), excessive Ackermann (more than a 1/4 degree added steer in either front wheel in 10 degrees of steering input is considered excessive), and incorrect steering quickness. The Antis A very soft spring would need more compression rate and less rebound rate, whereas a stiff spring would need a lot of rebound rate and much less compression rate. There are two main ways to tighten or loosen the car. would be able to run on asphalt with the leaf spring cars. We make it with either steel panels, or aluminium panels. This is because of the construction using angled, from a top view, arms that converge to points called instant centers. The proper steps to do this are outlined below. Since mustangs have a similar rear suspension would these same mods work? Yes, I get inquiries about how to apply the BBSS setups to both of these types of cars. LIT-718 80291 1997 - 2004 Mustang Radiator. Understanding corner weights | Articles | Grassroots Motorsports The fruits of this plant are large and can weigh over one pound. On both dirt and asphalt cars, it's a good idea to fine tune your shocks based on the type of track you're running. Take the RH arm and cut the tube off at the cross shaft, cut 1" off the tube and weld it back onto the cross shaft. If the car's center of gravity was say 16.5 inches (around average for an asphalt car that has been lowered), there would only be a 2-inch moment arm to try to roll the car. JavaScript is disabled. Ive read alot of stuff, some of it usefull some of it crazy. I followed the progress of the THR #01 SS very closely and when Terry says he tried everything legally possible to get that rear end to quit binding up during body roll, he's not exagerating. Customer is to bring a clean non-sandblasted frame when picking up the chassis. Because these cars are being used in great numbers in the Stock classes of racing here in the U.S., we need to have a better understanding of the design and how it relates to the setups. For the lower links, lowering the chassis mounts at the front of the link lowers the rear RC. I think if I had the opportunity I could make the 4-link work on asphalt using a similar set-up that I used on dirt. Setup Tips for Metric on asphalt | racecheep - ProBoards Lift earlier, and/or drag the brake just a little bit on entry. Street Stock Setups. About Us. JP is that the car you wadded up and broke your leg? Ackermann is easily checked by using a laser system or strings. But the most useful rear steer will only occur on acceleration and not at mid-turn. Mopar circle track question | For A Bodies Only Mopar Forum I think with the panard bar and 3rd link the metric cars. If the same stiffly shocked corner is in rebound, less of the overall load will be retained by that corner, and its diagonal corner as well, during the rebound cycle only. If one corner of the car is shocked stiff, then as that corner desires to move in compression, more load will be retained by that corner as well as the opposite diagonal corner of the car during the compression cycle only. Then all you have to do is maintain that balance throughout the season and that means resisting making changes that take you outside that envelope. The front geometry on a metric car isnt as good as a Camaro though. Then should I use brakes more? Chassis - Port City Race Cars Bolt on Torque Link Bracket - Afco - Pair "One bad person can ruin it for everyone and that is just disrespectful", The As a general rule, most asphalt stock cars run around 3.5 to 4.0 front roll center height, although many run lower roll centers than they would like simply because the stock location is very low . I'm thinking that a panhard bar would eliminate side to side motion but little else. Raising the rear of the lower links also lowers the rear RC, although in reality this is very hard to do because the links are already mounted close to the rearend axle housing. More has to be done to help the rear roll to match the front. In short, you'll get more rear grip by lowering the rear RC. competition. Metric front end setup | Wissota Tech Set-ups, advice - ProBoards Good luck and keep the rubber side down!!! I have always believed in priorities because you can make gains faster when you solve the high priorities problems first. These cars drive off the left rear more to keep them from being to loose, that is why you are starting to see the LF coming off the racetrack, it takes proper weight placement, rear bushing selection, spring choice, and ride heights to make it have a lot of traction but not be a three wheel out of control mess. Its hard to say without more information. how to adjust iRacing Sprint Car cross weight, go here. If we arrange our control arm angles, from a side view, for antidive, then as the car dives the upper BJ would move to the rear and the bottom BJ would move to the front. For the Big Bar, Soft Spring setups, teams often introduce Pro-dive into the left front suspension to encourage rapid dive on entry to get the left front down quickly. Sep 1, 2009. Here is a synopsis of how camber effects the handling of the chassis: Here are the diameter choices of the bar: The grill tape option is located under the drivetrain/aero tab within the garage menu. Roll Center or Moment Center. I built the car not the engine . We also discuss how to identify the cause and the best treatments for each type of pest. "ULTIMATE" Racing Car Chassis Setup Guide and Tutorial. So, here is, in order of logic and importance, a list of setup parameters we need to address to make our cars fast and consistent. Verndale, MN. I don't really encourage that method. One guy said it come up off the ground two feet. They have all kinds of articles and how to write ups on what to do with a metric four link to make it work better, how to use things like bump stops, progressive springs, gas shocks, sliding ballast, to make a car faster and more drivable. $137.99. I see the times at CCMS are identical, THR the truck .5 sec quicker. This configuration is common in General Motors cars built in and around the 1980's as well as some Ford cars, such as the Thunderbird, from the same time period. I once drove a metric on both dirt and asphalt. Told me he might be going to Lebanon to run now. S3 - Street Stock - USA $4.00; S3 - Street Stock - Lanier $4.00; S3 - Street Stock . Administrator. Some people add preload to the sway bar to make cross weight adjustments. If the car feels tight on corner exit, raise the right track bar. Welcome to STLRacing.com, home of St. Louis Motor Racing News. The steering system in your car must be evaluated and any negative characteristics must be eliminated. The Street Stock | Get Started Racing Most guys that are fast there are fast everywhere. These cars just take a little longer to get them set-up compared to the camaros, but there are alot more adjustment points to help you get and stay fast. 2,224. A high rear roll center causes a short moment arm in the rear suspension and will stiffen the rear suspension similar to installing very stiff springs. As you will gather from this book, setting up your car right and properly maintaining it is a lot of work. I haven't plotted it all out but four links, none of which are at the axis of rotation, would tend to fight each other as body rolls. 4. Basically - after you finish the set up routine, the car goes in the hauler. Victory Circle - West Coast asphalt and dirt chassis design and We can add the stiffer bushings to most of the points, but leave several, one at the top and one at the bottom, as a rubber bushing to absorb the torque created in roll. 2.Now set toe out. Street stock, pure stock, sportsman, factory stock. Keep It Fast and Cheap. Stock Car Racing, NASCAR, Late Model, Sooner Speedway, Frost Racing Team, Race Links, Chevy Monte Carlo . For me its very hard to be consistent and to adapt to the changing track states! You might try a little trail braking. Load the setup in the iRacing simulation under Garage - My Setups. A slight amount of rear steer to the left has been shown to help provide more traction at the rear and bite off the corners where it is needed. Conclusion The Metric four-link rear suspension is here to stay for a while. Maybe not on little tires either. Your statement that the 3-link is what the metrics needed to level the playing field is the type of feedback that tech. Ok im building a new circle track car useing a 1981 Camaro. I wondered if a 3 link could be made to work well without them. Oct 12, 2013 #2. First, we don't want to restrict the movement of the arms too much. AFCO C2 METRIC PADS $179.99. This will be a brief tutorial that should help iRacers adjust their setups to better suit their driving styles. Each suspension system desires to do its own thing when lateral forces are introduced from the car going through the turns. What do I do if the car is loose or tight throughout the corner? I remember qualifying times in the 19.6 to 19.7 range. Can a 3-link be used effectively without weight jacks? Street stock spring ? | STLRacing.com It is this sliding scale situation that determines the stiffness of your front end. Try to at least get to 53% front and 53% left weight with out adding ballast behind the rear wheels. RacelineCentral.com All Rights Reserved, NASCAR 2K3 Racing Season Garage 101 Guide Download, Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 2.5. 1 being the most important. My Metric front end setup. It's that time of year again when gardeners all over the world are planning what to grow in their gardens. Setup Tips: These tips are for an independent a-arm front suspension and 3-link rear suspension type of car, but may apply to other types of suspensions as well. A three link with panhard bar using the stock lower mounts works fine. We have done a lot with the front roll center and cant wait to see how it does, after that, i found some legal stuff for the rear that we will try. I never felt good about cheating but when everyone does you need an even playing field. Basically, if the suspension mounting points must remain stock, the leaf spring cars will dominate (at least on ashpalt.). The set-up really planted the RR tire. Once the setup has been balanced and the shocks are decided upon, we need to evaluate the turn-entry characteristics and the fact that brake bias is a very important influence at this segment of the track. Conversely, if the car feels tight throughout the corner, raise both track bars. did desi arnaz jr have a stroke; moose tracks vs cow tracks ice cream Street Stocks Dur-A-Flex Racing. Cvracer5. racing aspirations Moment Center for Circle Track Additionally, modern pennies are only 2.5% copper, so older pennies should be used instead for better results. By Bob Bolles, Circle Track Magazine . Antisquat is detrimental to corner entry. It depends on your rule book and it's enforcement. Brake Bias Plan out changes that could help improve performance or durability. . This means keep track of weight coming off and going on. Rear Geometry .220 to .235 would be fine without a quickner. Modified Cars for Sale IMCA Asphalt modified Setup Asphalt Modified Race Cars Asphalt Street Stock Setup Asphalt modified for Sale Asphalt modified Set Up The ULTIMATE Racing Car Chassis Setup Guide and Most Metric cars I've evaluated have rear RC's up around 14.5 inches off the ground. FOR 78-88 GM METRIC CARS. Thats the theory and the science anyway. If you need to know the height of your Metric four-link rear roll center, then send an email and I will send you a free calculator to use. The number one reason a car will be tight and not want to turn is because the front end is not designed properly. It would be nice if we could change the rear suspension, I have done a lot of research on it and have found some info, there is just not a lot legally that can be done with it. The rear roll center is certainly part of the problem. Online: $349.99. Did not get DQ'd but after the race the promoter told him that too many other cars were complaining and he would not be able to run the car in that class. LIT-722 C7 Z06 Corvette Heat Exchanger 80294NDP. I would get the metric arms from Speedway P-N 910-31134-RH (LH) they are 8.0 and 8.5 long. Setup Tips for Metric on asphalt. Street Stock Chassis Technology - Amazon.com Alignment How do I adjust the cross weight in an iRacing setup? Stock chassis that has been: Boxed, second "inner" frame tube added, suspension pickup points doubled and gusseted, rear frame notch (for future, wider tires), cross braces at front, rear shocks, and rear of frame. Lee Christjohn of Antigo, WI knows what it takes to win street stock races. After payment you will be directed to a download page. Subtle changes often go unnoticed, especially when they're hard to see without jacking the car up and crawling underneath. by doing this and the use of lowering blocks the rear roll center can be changed, I know it's not a quick adjustment but it is an adjustment the the metric car in the stock. If there is, try to adjust the brake bias to eliminate the adverse condition. You can use your stock metric pitman arm and . Most of the time when some ask the question they are at that point and just don't know it. Free Download Chapter listings from Street Stock Setup Maual 2.1.pdf (PDF). What do you think Nick? I'm thinking about building a B Body for dirt track racing. For example, if your initial setup is 52 percent cross-weight, and you want 50 percent cross-weight, lowering the right front or left rear corner will decrease cross-weight percentage. as for the powertrain setup, 40 over 350 basically all stock with 882 heads and a 450lift isky oval track cam, brand new factory q-jet, running a 3-speed saginaw factory clutch/PP pulling the track in first gear, 2.54 with a 2.73 ring/pinion, not very big on power for the setup works VERY well together for this track, if you can keep it .